Some discussion points

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February 17th, 2006, 03:13 PM
jumper69

Both Raven AND GL make good cases....HOWEVER...

My opinion on this leans more towards GL's POV.

It's one thing to be Muslim and call for an end to the violence, make statements, etc.

It's another thing to actually identify the bad muslims so the authorities can take action. THIS is what i'm not seeing. And don't freaking tell me that the bad muslims can't be identified. It's exactly like witnesses to murders in over the rhine. They know who did it. They also know that if they tell, they're most probably dead. But eventually someone will have to step up.

Same thing for the muslims. You can protest all you want. Until you actually do something about it, you're part of the problem.
February 17th, 2006, 03:32 PM
Piña

Quote:

Originally posted by Law Dawg:
Same thing for the muslims. You can protest all you want. Until you actually do something about it, you're part of the problem.

LD

So what have you done specifically to solve this muslim problem? I haven't seen you on TV denouncing the "bad muslims" or leading marches in the streets against them so I guess you're just falling down on the job.
February 17th, 2006, 03:43 PM
Dulcinea

I'm going along with "Raven wins the thread".

GL's source was saying, over and over, "No Muslim outrage".

Raven refuted that. There indeed WAS Muslim outrage.

GL's point wasn't "not enough outrage", no, he said "No outrage". He was wrong.
February 17th, 2006, 05:08 PM
jumper69

Quote:

You make a lot of assumptions about Muslims here that are frankly, well lets just say wrongheaded. What makes you think that ?bad Muslims?, and I take it by bad that you mean those that blow up Americans, would let anyone Muslim or not know who they are? They?re a fringe group, well actually many fringe groups, that represent very radical thinking. They?re not about to run around handing out business cards that read ?Bombs for Allah, Bombs for Peace.?

I don't think they have to advertise. Just like I know who the derelicts in my neighborhood are and what they're doing, I imagine that muslims living amongst the muslim derelicts know as well.

Quote:

What!?! You don?t know what each and every american is up to? For shame, for shame, after all the rest of the world knows that all Americans act and think in concert and are all responsible for the evil things that any American does. You need to get up speed here, bucko.

Actually this makes no sense to me as it pertains to what I origianlly wrote??? I never said I know what every American is up to. I SAID that I can't help unless the people I'm supposed to be helping help themselves by letting me know what's going on.

Quote:

Well just have to disagree on whether peaceful protest accomplishes anything. I believe it does, at least from a PR perspective. Considering that GL is ranting about the alleged appearance that Muslims aren't protesting the violence enough I kinda think it's a good thing that they actually are.

I never said peaceful protests never accomplish anything. I think that in this particular case, peaceful protests are about as effective as tits on a bull. Peaceful protests have very valid uses and I fully support them. But in my opinion one has to recognize when a peaceful protest is called for and when they won't work.

Quote:

Perhaps, but to assume that just because you haven?t seen active gathering of intelligence doesn?t mean it isn?t happening. Did you expect that it would be front page sort of stuff. I mean I know our intelligence agencies are going through a rough period but that?s a little bit beyond the pale. One would think that people passing on secrets might just want it kept secret that they were doing so.

Don't patronize me Pina. You know darn well that I understand the realities of covert intelligence gathering. Probably better than a lot of folks.

We both want to see this end peacefully Pina. We just disgagree on the approach. [img]smile.gif[/img]
February 17th, 2006, 05:38 PM
Piña

LD

I'm not patronizing you in the least.

You're a smart guy. Try reading the posts from your first reply on and maybe you can see where I'm coming from. (Keep in mind that I'm one sarcastic bastard at times and love to turn people's arguments against them to show logical inconsistancies.)
February 17th, 2006, 06:22 PM
reason

Quote:

Originally posted by Dulcinea:
I'm going along with "Raven wins the thread".

GL's source was saying, over and over, "No Muslim outrage".

Raven refuted that. There indeed WAS Muslim outrage.

GL's point wasn't "not enough outrage", no, he said "No outrage". He was wrong.

I concur. The context upon which this thread was started was debunked in a rather slam dunk fashion.
February 17th, 2006, 08:02 PM
Raven Soul

Quote:

Originally posted by G L G:
Yes I understand how wrong I have been. Here's a nice example:

Religion of Peace

Ok, so what are you saying that the actions of one justifies the stereotype of the whole? If that is the case then, how about Catholics and The Crusades? I mean since they were the Roman Catholic Holy Wars to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the Muslims. So by your intelligent post the actions of the people between the 11th and 13th century are in direct representation of all Roman Catholics?

How about the Salem Witch Hunt and Trials? I mean this alone resulted in numerous convictions and executions over Puritan witch hysteria. So are you saying that all descendants of English Protestants are hypochondriacs, scared of anything that might be different?

Let's update this to some dates closer to our time. How about Nazi Germany? Are you saying that since The Holocaust, which for the sake sanity, is the name applied to the systematic state-sponsored genocide of the Jews of Europe which progressed to the use of killing squads and extermination camps in a massive and centrally organized effort to exterminate populations targeted by the Nazis. Are you telling me that all of Germany accepted this behavior? Are you saying that all Germans believed as Hitler did? All Germans wanted to see the death of the Jews?

Please clarify your post for me, as your logic seems highly flawed. However if I am correct and you are trying to show the true evil of an entire religion by the actions of this one man then I suggest you visit here and get fitted for a new wardrobe.

[ February 17, 2006 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Quoth the Raven ]
February 17th, 2006, 08:47 PM
jumper69

Quote:

Are you telling me that all of Germany accepted this behavior? Are you saying that all Germans believed as Hitler did? All Germans wanted to see the death of the Jews?

Nope.....in fact Nazi's as a political party comprised a very small part of Germany's population. However, why is it that the concentration camps were only discovered in 1945, a full 5 years after the war started?

While the majority of the population were not Nazi's they certainly were, at least, complicit in the Holicaust.

So how is that any different than the situation we find ourselves in today? Only a small fraction of Muslims are being assholes and yet practically a whole religion basically sits on their camels and does nothing?
February 17th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Anton von Stockhoff

I have stated my position and if some of you feel the need to extrapolate more from my comments than I have actually said, that is your problem. I always knew you were a little bit "off" Raven, but I never suspected you to be a muslim sympathizer. See in the Cold War years it was easy to spot a Communist Sympathizer and call one as such. Now for "political correctness" we have people like you making excuses for our enemy. Sad.
February 17th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Raven Soul

So now we are resulting to attacks. Can't win the arguement with valid points, so lets insult each other.

Good.

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